English Players that deserve International recognition

Can't disagree with any of them. Obviously I'll sing my praises on Dyer - and Routledge can be just as lethal on the opposite flank. They work great together.

I like Colback from what I've seen of him. Can't say I've paid much attention to Curtis Davies, but the other two I agree one hundred percent.

Can't see any of them improving the side.

Colback looks tidy, but slow and ponderous. I certainly don't want gerrard or fat frank back, but I can't see what Colback offers.  Might as well nominate steve sidwell...

Davies has been solid, but then so was Dawson and I wouldn't want him there either.

Dyer? Really? Don't we have enough one dimentional wingers already...

Players that could be used... its tough because we have so few now. The reality is, the 3 players listed above will probably be capped, and one of them could get double figure caps (colbeck), but none of them will move the side forward.  Eric Dier has started the season really well, but it's far too soon for him. I'm a massive fan of will Hughes at Derby,  but he isn't flying yet. Rodwell should come good at Sunderland and finally fulfil his potential. I like chambers at arse too, but it's far too soon for him too.

Edit- ward-prowse is going to be a monster in a couple of years. He needs to start making the squads now.

Last edited by Mr Hilds (Sun-7-Sep-2014 23:05:02)

I've never understood why Adam Johnson doesn't get called up more. Joe Cole too.

I've never understood why Adam Johnson doesn't get called up more. Joe Cole too.

Because Adam Johnson had six good games and since then has failed to perform consistently at all. He arron Lennon,  but with less pace and slightly better crossing ability, or theo walcott without any goal threat.

And Joe Cole is Joe Cole. Not a gd plan to include a coke head in the England team too often (Andy Carroll has the same problem  when he's not injured)

Jeez Hilds you have to be one of the most depressing football fans I've ever met. 😄

Cole...maybe. I'm willing to admit that I'm still a massive fan of his just because of that Sweden goal, but Johnson is a legit squad player. He should at least be getting friendlies and the easier qualifiers.

Same goes for Agbonlahor. I doubt he'd ever make the final 23, but I've always wondered why he's not given more chances. He's not that bad!

Hilds is right. Our best players are hardly that good but they get picked because they are consistently better than the rest. None of these fringe players can sustain a high level of performance over a long period of time. If they could they wouldn't be playing for average teams. I would have picked Ryan Shawcross as a contender but he will have one good game and then three average ones.

I'm with Ross and Hilds, none of these players are good enough. If anything we should give caps to only youngsters because some of these players will make an already crap team worse, you can't tell you want Nathan Dyer to play when there's already like 7 players better than him not improving the squad.

The current England squad are poor. Or at least worst than they should be. Maybe one or two fresh players is exactly what they need.

The current England squad are poor. Or at least worst than they should be. Maybe one or two fresh players is exactly what they need.

Fresh players like 29 year old Curtis davies?

Sometimes the best players don't always work. You need one or two hard workers in there who will give it their all. Someone like Colback, who's only 24 so not exactly old, is a tidy player who would break up play better than any of the current players in the England squad. This would allow the other midfielders a bit more freedom to go forward.

Can't think of many right wingers that are good enough. The Ox and Walcott (who wants to be a striker not a winger). Then who? Sterling is left sided or central. Milner isn't a good winger. Townsend isn't much better, if at all, than Dyer. Young, left sided. Lallana, left sided or central. Lennon has gone backwards. We have 2 really good right wingers, one of which wants to be a striker. That's it.

Picking from the top teams clearly isn't working for us. So why not try some of the other guys who are playing well in the smaller teams and would give their all for the team?

The current England squad are poor. Or at least worst than they should be. Maybe one or two fresh players is exactly what they need.

Fresh players like 29 year old Curtis davies?

He'd still be fresh to the England squad. Defenders generally get better in their late 20's anyway. He looks a lot better than Smalling does. How he still get's called up to the England squad is beyond me.

Ben said what I wanted to say. Age has nothing to do with fresh England players... just the fact they are new to the squad and want to prove a point. England have not been good enough for a while now so clearly the team they are picking could do with a few tweaks. Some new faces could bring some ambition and motivation into the team because watching England play is like watching paint dry (excluding a few great players of course).

Inb4englandwonlasttwogames

So, the plan to win the world cup in 4 years is to throw caps at a player who'll be 33 when it rolls around?

That's been our problem for a long time, we pick flavour of the month and current form. We should be looking at who should be at their peak in 4 years and build around that.

Welbeck/sturridge no problem. Both 23 or 24 now. Rooney should be gone. Cahill, baines, Johnson and anyone (except the keeper) around 28 should be out.

Give the arm band to phil Jones and pick a centre back that compliments him (someone pacy).

Last night's performance was ok, but still we had no identity. We played a diamond,  and the Swiss didn't expect that so we won the game. Next opponents will be aware and our performance will suffer. Youth is the way, and having a system of play we can work on for 4 years to get the best out of players.

4231 would be my formation, with wilshere the main man in midfield, either cm or sitting behind sturridge or welbeck. Welbeck, the ox or Stirling wide, with the three starters given licence to swop. Cm two would be wilshere (if he isn't playing further forward), and Rodwell,  ward-prowse and will Hughes (if he starts to show the potential of 12 months ago again) going for the other slot.  Defense is easy enough with Nat Clyne at right back, shaw left back, Phil Jones centre and then look at a few players to partner Jones.  The likes of Dier,  chambers, caulker, smalling all given chances.  I'd also look at Clyne over at left back, Sam byram of Leeds at right back and chambers at right back. Obviously Hart in goal, with foster as back up. Most of that team would be 27/28 at the next world cup and have euro championship experience in them as well.

I don't know how old nathan dyer is, but if he's early 20's then he gets a chance.  Same with Colback and anyone showing potential and around 23/24 years old. We need to plan for the world cup in 4 years, and players like  Rooney, cahill and Curtis davies won't be around, so why play them now?  Be brave, and build a TEAM for the world cup, rather than collecting individuals.

Rooney will be 32 at the next World Cup. You know Germany took a 36 year old striker and won the tournament don't you? And he did quite well. A few players over 30 won't hurt and is good for experience.

Rodwell is no better than Colback. Hughes won't play in the Premiership as Derby won't make it and they won't let him go unless they get ridiculous money for a championship player.

If you don't think guys playing in the Premiership are good enough you can't select players in a lower league to get selected. Unless they move pretty soon to the Prem, then forget about them.

Henderson is England''s best midfielder apart from Wilshere.

Rooney will be 32 at the next World Cup. You know Germany took a 36 year old striker and won the tournament don't you?

The difference is, Klose is world class, and Rooney isn't. Klose has performed at every world cup he's been involved in, and Rooney hasn't. Klose has about 70 international goals (you get where I'm going with this...)

If a player is good enough, then age isn't an issue. But we have no Paulo Maldini sitting in our defence, we don't have a player as good as Klose up front.

So we need to build a team, and including players who'll be well into their 30's at the next world cup is stupid. Build a team around youth and include experience to support them. No point having a 32 year old Rooney at the world cup when he only has 1 world cup goal to his name. He isn't, suddenly, going to end the tournament in 4 years with 16 to his name...

Henderson is England''s best midfielder apart from Wilshere.

I don't see what he gives us. Granted, I didn't watch last night, but his game is passing sideways, and at the last world cup he was only accurate 80% of the time. His job is to retain the ball, and he isn't good at it.

At least we don't have gerrard and lampard trying long range passing to look good and only hitting their mark 50% of the time.

I've never quite understood Henderson either. I thought he was fine alongside Gerrard, but nothing special. I'd definitely consider dropping him for Rodwell or Barkley.

Hilds, you think other teams will be prepared for the midfield diamond so you're going for 4-2-3-1? Everyone uses that these days. The diamond is a much better option, two up front and a lot of room for switching it up behind. Besides, we know Rooney is never leaving this squad, he's England's John Cena, so pushing Rooney from attacking midfield to second striker gives us a spot for someone like Wilshere, Barkley or Sterling to play behind.

Most of our games lately have been the same story, a ton of missed chances and very little threat in defence. We don't need four defenders and then two defending midfielders, we need more attacking options. Hart is great, Cahill and Jagielka are pretty good, we'll be fine for 90% of our games with only a Henderson or whoever as backup. When we meet up with a Germany or Spain, then we can think about dropping someone else back.

And yep, we definitely should be thinking about the world cup in 2018, but there's a Euro cup to win in 2016 too and a lot of the current squad will still be playing good football in two years. Baines is quality, if a little too eager to go forward, and Rooney still has something to offer. Not much, but something.

I'd go with something like this for most of the Euro qualifiers:

GK - Hart

RB - Clyne (Stones)
CB - Cahill (Jones)
CB - Jagielka (Chambers?)
LB - Baines (Shaw)

CDM - Barkley (Henderson)
RM - Oxlade-Chamberlain (Townsend)
LM - Sterling (Lallana)
CAM - Wilshere (Walcott, when healthy)

ST - Sturridge (Rodriguez)
ST - Welbeck (Rooney)

I had this out with my mate the other day. Rooney is the closest we have to a world class striker. His scoring record is great anyway. Have you ever looked it up? He's something like 3 goals away from being the Premiership 2nd all time goal scorer. He has a record of just more than 1 goal every 2 games and isn't far off that with England.

His World Cup stats aren't great, but he's played in 11 and we've only won 3. Can't tell me that's all his fault. We generally have played like shit at tournaments and don't get enough chances to our strikers. Or we play them on the wing instead of upfront. He can't create his own chances all the time, it's a team effort. With his scoring record, if we got the ball to him properly in the box, he'd score. His scoring record proves that.

England definitely do play too defensively, especially at tournaments. That's why I'm in favour of ditching the second holding midfielder in favour of another attacking option.

We need a system and style of play. Put down a marker and say 'deal with that'. Currently we don't.  We're terrified of the opposition. I like the 4231 because the back 6 defend and the front 4 can interchange. The Diamond holds too many people in position for my liking. I'm not a fan of 2 strikers because international football is all about possession imo. U need to hold the ball and work forwards, 2 strikers generally means u give up possession and play on the counter, meaning u need pacy wide men (not a problem) who can deliver accurate crosses (ahh, maybe a snag). U also need your midfield to be able to pass, especially the holding midfielder, and us English don't like players who can pass accurately, we prefer lampard and gerrard who hit one great looking ball out of three...

Plus, the 4231 doesn't have to be a defensive formation. It's about getting possession and keeping possession. The two centre mids don't have to be destroyers. Personally I'd have wilshere and ward-prowse in there, with Rodwell and Hughes as back up. Maybe start working nick Powell in there. All players who can deal with the ball comfortably and move it around. Rodwell and ward-prowse can put a foot in when needed, but all are footballers first.

Chuckles, what's the point of playing jagieka and baines? Jags is 31 or 32 now, and baines is 29 or 30. They'll both be mid 30's by the euros! Bin them now and give games to players who will be in their prime for the world cup. The euros should give them experience. Get ryan Bertrand of Chelsea in there (he'll be 28 at the world cup) and have him compete with shaw for left back.

We have some good kids, if they are used and moulded as a team now. Roy bringing stones in is good, but we need to do a whole lot more.

As for roon,  he is the only player I'm in two minds about. He was one of the best players in the league last year, almost single handedly dragging a poorly performing United team into 7th (it could've been much worse...) His scoring stats are good, and he always scores in qualifiers. He's going to be England's record goalscorer. And he is the closest thing we have to a world class player.

But I can't see him being able to play over the age of 32. He just doesn't come across to me as someone who looks after himself like giggs did, and makes the sacrifices giggs made to prolong his career and stay at the top. Roon is far more likely, imo, to go the same way gazza did and slip quickly down the leagues, playing for Burnley and rangers.

One player deserves it more than any other this season. Harry Kane has been class. Why he isn't starting tonight is beyond me. He's done better than Welbeck has this season, and I like Welbeck, think he get's more stick than is deserved. But Kane has been superb all season and deserves it. Glad he's been called up, but he's the most in form striker at the moment, so why isn't he playing? I like that Kane clearly works his socks off, he's exactly the sort of striker that England need and him and Rooney would compliment each other imo. Get them playing together!